Social Dynamics

[kitanzi]

This is a matter of curiosity, so I'll throw it out there.

When you are part of a couple do you find people assuming that if they tell one of you something, the other will know? Do they assume the other will NOT know unless they specifically say it's okay? Are there different default assumptions depending on the nature of the information? (ie, there's a birthday party next weekend at our place, vs personal information about relationships, for instance.) Does this change if the nature of your relationship changes? (ie, your boyfriend becomes your exboyfriend and current friend - do people still make the same assumptions of what's shared information and what's not?)

For gifts, is something handed over by one person usually (in your experience) assumed to be from that person, or from both? If it's sent through the mail and not specified, what's the common assumption, or do you find people try to find out in that case? If someone gives you a gift, is it assumed it's for your partner as well?

Does this change if you are part of a more complicated poly configuration?

I'm curious what people's assumptions and expectations and above all experiences are with this, and so I'm tossing it out there.

Comments

[cadhla.livejournal.com]

1. When you are part of a couple do you find people assuming that if they tell one of you something, the other will know?

Both yes and no, which isn't entirely helpful, but. People assume that public information -- we're having a movie night, there's a party, Cindy's transmission blew -- will be shared, while private information -- Angel's going to have a baby -- will be held in as much confidence as they might have expected from me were I not involved. In the case of private information, I generally ask for permission to tell my SOs. Basically, I'm still an individual, even if I'm involved; that means the rules of individual courtesy still apply.

2. Does this change if the nature of your relationship changes?

Only when people are aware of the changed relationship. If they think I'm still with Tom, they will, of course, expect me to tell Tom everything. When they find out I'm not, the expectation changes.

3. For gifts, is something handed over by one person usually (in your experience) assumed to be from that person, or from both?

Unless the tag lists givers, I'll generally ask, but the automatic
assumption is that it's from both. If you gave me a present, unless you said 'this is JUST FROM ME', I'd assume it was from both of you.

4. Does this change if you are part of a more complicated poly configuration?

Oh, hell yes. #1 applies only to people physically living with you in group relationships; I don't expect you to tell everyone you're dating everything, that's at least partially my job. #2 has much the same standing no matter how many people you're dating. #3...I will assume that the gift is from you and anyone you're living with, unless the tag reads otherwise, but would not guess more remote SOs.

[kitanzi.livejournal.com]

Thank you! :) Actually, I think the public information part of #1 is a little chancy if you want to make sure someone knows something (like if you want to make sure they know about the party and their invite) but otherwise it makes a lot of sense.

[cadhla.livejournal.com]

It depends on importance and urgency for me, usually. If, say, I want to be sure you're aware that I'll be at OVFF, I'll tell Rob, assuming it'll trickle down to you. If I very much want you both to come out for lunch with me, I'll email you both, because that's something that requires prompt feedback.

Actually, that is where my border stands: if I need feedback from both of you, I will tell you or ask you both. If I just want to continue getting the fact out there, I'll tell whoever's convenient and then flounce off, as is my wont.

[kitanzi.livejournal.com]

Ok, that's a sensible sort of way to sort it. :)

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

When you are part of a couple do you find people assuming that if they tell one of you something, the other will know?

Yes, for the most part. I don't live that way, though; what I tell WD, and what I told him back when we lived together, depended on the situation, etc. I tend to tell him what I'd tell a close friend.

Re: gifts, that also depends. Sometimes the gift is clearly from or for a couple, but sometimes it's not; context is always useful.

I had more/more sensible stuff to say, but loud do the phones ring.

[kitanzi.livejournal.com]

I'd be curious to hear the rest if you have time later! I find it's fairly common to assume that public knowledge stuff told to one will quickly be known to the other, and it's not necessarily so.

[bedlamhouse]

It always depends so much on the individuals doing the telling/receiving in our case - It seems to depend on whether the person has a friend/business/whatever relationship with one or both of us.

I find that unless someone tells me explicitly to pass something on to ladyat that I may simply forget to pass it on. Unless someone tells me explicitly that something is confidential, I may discuss it with her - I don't keep much from her in any event, and I will assume otherwise that she is included in any confidential relationship.

The general rule for me passing information to others is usually a "household" rule - I tend to assume folks in the same household will pass information along. When in doubt here, though, I will mention it explicitly.

Communication - it blargs the yueprts in gramwhallop.

[kitanzi.livejournal.com]

Communication - it blargs the yueprts in gramwhallop.

You said a mouthful!

I agree it depends a lot on context, and if I have any doubts, I try to confirm before sharing or asking about information. On the other hand, slips can happen, either in not passing info on or in passing on what was assumed to not be. I agree that it's usually safest to assume someone's SO is likely to find out something confidential, and make it really explicit if you don't want that to happen.

[alymid.livejournal.com]

When you are part of a couple do you find people assuming that if they tell one of you something, the other will know? Do they assume the other will NOT know unless they specifically say it's okay? Are there different default assumptions depending on the nature of the information?

For public stuff like invites, but less so for other things - and Evan and i have a policy (fairly publically stated) of not keeping secrets that would affect eachother. In general if someone tells me something they don't want evan to know - the preface it and I judge under the circumstances whether I think that I can hear it without telling Evan. And I do think that the default assumption is different depending on the info. Invitations are generally assumed to be passed on - unless specifically stated. Other stuff it is assumed that we discuss, but no one cares. Other stuff is specifically stated - can or can't go further.

Does this change if the nature of your relationship changes? (ie, your boyfriend becomes your exboyfriend and current friend - do people still make the same assumptions of what's shared information and what's not?)

I think that is very situational depending on how ya'll handle the breakup. For a few weeks people still passed things to me to get to S, now I don't think anyone would. But I have made it clear that now that I am not his gf, I won't be his social secretary either.

For gifts, is something handed over by one person usually (in your experience) assumed to be from that person, or from both? If it's sent through the mail and not specified, what's the common assumption, or do you find people try to find out in that case? If someone gives you a gift, is it assumed it's for your partner as well?

Another "depends" situation. I would assume that if A from couple AB gave me a gift, that it was in spirit at least from both of them. Through the mail wouldn't change the perception of that for me. If I have a more personal relationship with A or B I might assume that that particular person did the picking. But if someone was my SO, I would assume the gift was from the SO, and not from the couple unless specifically stated. And for the recieving aspect - it would depend on the gift and the situation. If I was handed a gift from one member of a couple that we are mostly "couple" friends with, I would assume it was for both of us. If it was my birthday I would assume it was for me :). But in general, Evan and I are fairly comunal about stuff anyway, so whatever it was we would probably share to some degree anyway.

Does this change if you are part of a more complicated poly configuration?

Not the gift giving stuff, but the communication/confiding stuff definitely. I was at one point involved in a "constelation" with about 13 people in it. I found that people outside the constelation were much less likely to be comfortable sharing stuff because they "had no idea" who might end up hearing it under the guise of SO privledge. Also invitations generally were a little more either open or specific. They knew that if they were inviting me - and the specifically wanted Evan they should say so, or I might show up with any or all of my SOs (3 at the most) depending on the type of event. But the non-polys in our crowd are pretty cool with the polys in that sense, and generally parties and events are pretty open.

[joecoustic.livejournal.com]

Looking at it from the other side (as the person talking to the member of the couple), I have found that often casual public sort of info is not passed on while the private stuff (that at times I would have rather be kept private) is shared. This is why I have decided to assume that one part of couple will probably tell the other(s) and operate with this assumption. What I need to do is get better at working with is the first part which is realizing that they may not disseminate the public info so I need to do it myself. This is not meant to sound quite as cynical as I think it does, it's just been my experience. :)

[kitanzi.livejournal.com]

I've found that's pretty common, too - I don't know that it's necessarily cynical.

[surrdave.livejournal.com]

My assumption is that if it affects both of them, it'll get shared. That would include anything involving a schedule, a gift, or a community relationship. Of course, trusting someone to keep their SO informed sometimes doesn't work well... but that's a problem that tends to solve itself anyway.

However, there are a lot of couples where I only interact with one of them. In those cases, I don't assume information is shared, nor do I worry about whether it should be. Also, a gift would be from that one person, presumably with the blessings of the other but that isn't important. Those are generally simpler and smoother friendships than when I deal with both; however, I do try to be mindful of creating tension, so I often ask about the SO or whether they know what's up.


> Does this change if you are part of a more complicated poly
> configuration?

Not particularly, except I get confused easily and often don't know what to expect.

[kitanzi.livejournal.com]

That's interesting - I was about to say I mostly know both of a couple, but that's certainly not true at work. On the other hand, I don't give any information at work that I wouldn't be willing to tell the entire world. Socially, if I know one person I usually know their SO at least slightly, but that may be the fact that I have a fairly insular circle of friendsd - mostly fen. :)

[pocketnaomi.livejournal.com]

Hmm.

I find very few people assuming that if they tell me something I'll tell Manny, in terms of events or scheduling or so on. They usually ask me to do so directly. When it's personal information, I usually don't leave it to chance; I either ask explicitly whether I can tell him, or I don't tell him. (The exception is stuff like friendslisted LJ for people on whose friendslist I know he *is*, so could see it if he looked, but I know he doesn't read much -- I assume that's directed also at him because they know who they friendslisted.) In reverse, I generally expect that if I don't say something is privileged information it will likely get through to a serious life partner, not to the date-of-the-moment. I do expect explicit secrets to be kept unless I'm warned ahead of time that this couple shares everything.

When I give gifts, they're usually from me unless they're signed from both of us. This is because I tend to give them at odd times and with a lot of personal focus. I usually assume that's the way of it in reverse unless I'm told it's from both of a couple. I think most people I give presents to judge it correctly when I'm giving it to them; sometimes they ask.

I assume exes, however close they remain emotionally, have no privileges in terms of secrets. I'd be very surprised if someone passed something I said on to an ex they were still good friends with, at least any more than they would pass it on to any other friend of theirs.

I only know a few continuing complex poly groupings, as distinguished from a couple who each has independent other partners. Usually the couples each of whom have other partners, even if each sometimes socializes as a couple with their secondary, revert to the original in terms of gift-giving, or keep it individual. I usually assume my secrets aren't getting to secondaries even if I don't say so; this may not always be a wise assumption. I don't *pass* secrets to my secondary, even if not explicitly stated as a secret, any more than I do to any other friend -- but I admit I pass things which do not actually sound secret to people who are close to me in general; I like to talk. I try to keep quiet when I think the originator would want me to.

For the few multiple/complex steady arrangements I know of, they're pretty clear about stating whom a gift is from. I don't generally have to wonder. I do assume that what I say to one is getting back to all unless I ask them not to.

[kitanzi.livejournal.com]

With the exes thing, I was thinking of at least one or two situations where I know an exSO has become a current housemate. I had that for a brief while, actually, long time ago. As far as gifts go, I find it varies. For instance, I assumed the jacket you gave me was specifically from you, since I knew it had been yours. :) If you had handed me a book around my birthday or something, I might have assumed it was from both of you. On the other hand, you have always been very consistent and clear in such things. I think you're more carefully precise in your conversation than most people. *hug*

[maedbh7.livejournal.com]

Again, a reply from the other side, being the one talking to the couple. I've had much the same experience as JoE, with private things being shared and public things not. And in general, I make the default assumption that anything I say to one, will be said to the other, whether I would wish it that way or not. Couples are couples for a reason, and most share much, and I tend to think that's as it should be. And so, imo, any person interacting with a couple should expect that that couple bond will play a vital role in what information gets passed along.

Yes, sometimes this means I have to repeat public information. I'd far rather that than most of the alternatives.

However, re poly situations, one situation to avoid at any cost: never tell partner A you will be breaking up with partner B, when A and B are a couple. Be stoic, keep it all to yourself, and let them both be surprised by the news. Because all of the alternatives are so much worse, and moreso when fragile egos are involved. Life lessons learned and all that. -H...

[kitanzi.livejournal.com]

I think that's mostly a pretty safe assumption. I'd especially agree with your last bit, there - it would be like telling mutual friends you're going to breakup and letting your partner find out from them, but worse.

[meritmaat.livejournal.com]

Usually, information to me is also information to Sönke, unless I find the information too private to share or am clearly told not to tell anyone - not even Sönke.
With gifts, it depends strongly on the person/couple. Usually, I assume the gift is from the couple.

[cellio]

I think people tend to assume we have a hive mind for social stuff. Assumptions about other types of information seem to be all over the board, though. Sometimes people are surprised when I don't automatically pass everything on, and I've had to tell people sometimes that they shouldn't assume that telling him = telling me.

I try to be fairly explicit when dealing with a couple: "We'd like to invite you folks to dinner", "could you pass this on to your sweetie too?", "just between the two of us", etc. I tend to assume that information distribution will be pesimal -- that if it was meant for both it might not get to both, and that some people might violate implied confidences -- and behave accordingly. So if this means I say something to both of them and one says "yeah, I already heard", that's better than the alternative.

[bardling.livejournal.com]

Like many who have answered before me, it depends. I have observed very different couples and how I treat a couple depends a bit on how they interact. If I observe that they share everything and generally do everything socially together, I'd also assume that practical info like invites will get passed on - and I'd make it very explicitly clear if I was inviting only one of them. This tends to be the more common scenario. Like others have said, I tend to think closeness & sharing is a good thing in an intimate relationship (though not necessary "sticking" to each other always. ;)

I find it easier for me to live happily on the assumption that anything I might tell a couple might/will probably get shared, unless I explicitly ask for it not to be - in such case I'd also expect the person to warn me that their philosophy is one of all-sharing and my confidence will also be shared. On the other hand, I don't assume that everything *will* *always* be passed on, and where it matters that both hear, I will either ask explicitly that the other also be told, or make sure I tell both.

As part of a couple, I will generally not pass confidences on to my partner automatically, but I do reserve the right to do so when/where I feel the need to do so.

[jenny_evergreen]

I assume when I tell someone something, unless I specifically ask that they tell no one else, they may or may not tell someone else. (It's a pretty safe assumption. :)
If someone tells me something and asks me to keep it to myself, I inform them that I tell Tom everything (or, rather, need to be able to tell him, whether I actually do or not), but that he will keep it to himself, and leave the decision up to them. If someone tells me something and doesn't specifically ask me to keep it to myself, I use my judgement.
I don't really give people the chance to assume anything...I'm pretty quick to communicate that I tell Tom everything, but if you want to be sure he gets told something, say so.
Tom's inclusion in everything told to me is a direct consequence of the fact that we are partners...if that changed, so would the inclusion. I have a long-term policy of not keeping things from anyone with whom I am intimately involved, which would not change if I were in a poly situation. With regard to others, my basic assumption remains unchanged.
Since Tom is the one who brings in the money, I sort of consider every gift "kind of" from both of us...but, in general, it's from whoever it says on the tag. I generally assume the same thing in the case of being on the receiving end, unless I know otherwise.

Pretty boring, but hey. :)

[poltr1]

Speaking from the monogamous point of view.....

Unless I'm told in advance that something is confidential, I'll usually share information with my wife. The policy in my New Warrior I-group, which is strictly men only, is "Whatever is said here, stays here", so she hears nothing of what's discussed when I'm away at the group. Sometimes she finds that irritating, since we don't keep a lot of information from each other. But men need their space to talk about our stuff, just like women need their own place to talk about their stuff.

As for gifts, they're usually for both of us, unless it's clothing or hobby-related. (I get the computer and musical stuff, she gets the cross-stitch and tarot stuff.)

[jenny_evergreen]

"But men need their space to talk about our stuff, just like women need their own place to talk about their stuff."

Just for the record, this is a generalization that isn't necessarily true. It is not true for me, personally.